"Wrestling."
Tonight, on the WWE Raw open discussion thread:
The WWE Universe has itself a new WWE Championship, but the big question now is: Who will challenge for the fresh-faced prize at WrestleMania 29? On the one hand, you have John Cena, the current No. 1 contender following his Royal Rumble Match victory in January. On the other is CM Punk, who goaded Cena into putting his WrestleMania WWE Title opportunity up for grabs in a one-on-one renewal of their long-running rivalry. While Cena and Punk settle their score, however, trouble is brewing in Team Hell No’s shaky friendship, and Paul Heyman gets ready for the fight of his life against an injured — but eager — Mr. McMahon. Here are five things to look forward to on Monday’s Raw.
Also, the WWE Universe eagerly awaits Glenn Beck’s reply to the formal invitation from WWE officials to address his criticisms of Jack Swagger and Zeb Colter. Will the famous politico show? (via WWE.com)
Five-point preview:
1. The Swagger angle has officially gone from “here’s a racist guy being fed to the cool Hispanic heavyweight champion” to “WWE political jokez,” and that’s the biggest possible spectrum joke. I apologize in advance for any aggressive political remarks made in tomorrow’s Best and Worst of Raw, but Jesus Christ, I’m not looking forward to this.
2. Paul Heyman will wrestle Vince McMahon, and by “wrestle” I mean “street fight,” and by “will” I mean “will kinda until Brock Lesnar and/or Triple H show up to set up a WrestleMania thing.”
3. The Undertaker showed up at a live event this week, so look for him on tonight’s show. Or don’t, like a couple of weeks ago when he was palling around with a local sports mascot for no reason. Maybe Or Maybe Not Dong is what I’m saying.
4. The Team Hell No feud is officially on, right? I hope Daniel Bryan’s next shirt says “FEWER HUGS, MORE KICKS TO THE FACE.”
5. +1 to WWE.com for referencing Pulp Fiction in their Brad Maddox recap. They are smart motherf**kers, that’s right.
As always, the top 10 comments from tonight’s WWE Raw open discussion thread make it into tomorrow’s Best and Worst of Raw report. To nominate a comment for top 10 consideration, please reply to it with a +1.
Enjoy the show, everybody.
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damn, i wish i stayed up and watched that match.
So, was Cena/Punk 2 good?
If it means we can see moves like the Piledriver again, let’s not-punish Jack Swagger more often.
Dat Piledriver
Anyone else notice the joy in Lawler’s voice after the Piledriver? I feel like he wanted to say “YOU MY BOY PUNK”
I wanted something else for Punk after that match. Even if it was a stupid Cena hug. Him just rolling out never to be seen again coupled with John taking a minute to shake off a grueling match only to start smiling and posing kinda took away from it. I still thoroughly enjoyed it. And Rock’s Tweet was like the ultimate slap in the face. But whatevs…..Im just a sometimes wrestling fan.
I loved this match, and I didn’t mind Cena winning because Punk made him WORK for all his signature moves, and reintroducing a certain element of uncertainty to what you thought was going to happen. What I really wanted was for this match to set the stage for a Triple Threat main event for the WWE Title, but I don’t feel like that can happen with such a clean and decisive finish.
How many times did Hogan or Austin lose clean (Once they reached Main Event status)?
I’m really surprised by how good they are allowing CM Punk to look. He’s routinely kicking out of one/two finishers, and he’s carrying his recent matches to great heights.
That said, I just want to do my best to curb all of the love that being thrown at last night’s match. It was very entertaining, yes, but that’s for two main reasons… 1) CM Punk is at the top of his game right now. He could carry a fantastic 20 minute match against a bag of groceries. And, most importantly… 2) John Cena matches are only good/great when we believe he might lose. It has nothing to do with Cena ‘stepping up his game’ or anything like that. It’s purely based on “oh shit, Punk kicked out! He might win!!” moments. John Cena is an awful in-ring performer, but we are so used to seeing him squash everybody that when somebody threatens the Superman gimmick, we lose our shit. I was guilty of it last night… but I recognized what was happening, too.
Think about how many times Cena has been in a ‘match of the year’ candidate… It’s always when we think there’s a real chance that somebody’s going to beat him clean (and/or end a long title reign).
Cena isn’t an awful ring performer. He’s occasionally sloppy but with the exception of like… Bret Hart who isn’t.
“That said, I just want to do my best to curb all of the love that being thrown at last night’s match.”
You have not succeeded. That match was and still is awesome.
@DocZeus — Cena most certainly IS an awful in-ring performer. If you can’t acknowledge that, then there’s no point in arguing with you over it.
Case and point: after everything Punk did to make that match so good, it was ultimately up to Cena to bring it home since he was booked to win. While Punk has 100+ believable, technically sound ways to end a match, Cena gave us a botched hurricanrana and a fireman’s carry. Good head doesn’t equal good wrestling.
That doesn’t mean I didn’t love watching that match, though. I did. But for the 2 reasons I mentioned in my OP.
*Good HEAT… not “head” …though, I guess my typo is still accurate. :/
I don’t think Cena is an awful in-ring performer. Randy Orton? That’s an awful in-ring performer.
Great Khali is an awful in-ring performer. Aksana is an awful in-ring performer. Mason Ryan is an awful in-ring performer. Those are wrestlers that do nothing well and have no understanding or desire to understand how professional wrestling is supposed to work. John Cena is not THAT.
He has way too many great matches in his career to dismiss his ability like that. Every wrestler has their strength and weaknesses in the ring. Punk looks like a wounded chicken trying to fly every time he leaps into the air. It’s not your ability to execute a rana that defines you but the way you can tell a story. Cena is a pretty damn good when he’s given something more substantial than your average Raw match.
Orton is boring, sure, but he’s 100x better than Cena at wrestling. Again, heat/being over (even if half of it is legit X-Pac heat) doesn’t = wrestling ability.
Finally watched the DVR. Holy hell, this is why I watch this stuff. This is why I sit through months of dreck. Because when it’s right, this is magical. Would I rather Punk have won? Yeah. Absolutely. But if you give me an outstanding 25+ minute wrestling match that means something, and I’m ecstatic. That reminded me of how awesome MITB 2011 was.
Had a basketball game last night, so I saw the first segment, the Punk-Cena match and nothing else. Not sure I even want to watch the rest for fear it’d ruin what I did see.
Part of me wonders if Punk and Cena made it a point to lay down the gauntlet to Dwayne with that match, because in a million years, he ain’t touching that.
I think the point of the match, given its outcome, was to make Cena look like he belongs in the same ring as the Rock. I’m not talking about actual physical ability, but in terms of aura and ability to enrapture the crowd. Cena’s not in Rocky’s league in that department whatsoever, at least the Cena we’ve been given to watch for the last 8 or so years. IMHO, I’m inclined to think that all the money the WWE made on last year’s WrestleMania was to see The Rock in the ring & wrestling a match again, not so much in the Ring w/ John Cena.
But if the Cena that was all business on the mic, and did everything he could to defeat CM Punk in the ring continues to appear on WWE television and if it’s this Cena that sets foot in the ring at WrestleMania, then I think we’ve got a worthwhile rematch.
Going along with the ‘face is a prick, heel is always right’ booking theme that WWE seem to be running on right now, the Sheamus and Barrett segment on Raw was the worst. I mean, does being an extra in a film really deserve some Irish bloke to take the piss out of you for 2 weeks straight with no provocation.
Besides, The Call looks a better film anyway
I didn’t actually watch either segment, but let me guess…Sheamus took the initiative to bust Wade Barrett’s chops over his movie role? How hard would it have been to have Wade Barrett walking around with a swelled head, air the trailer, then having some relative peon be like, “Wait…where WERE you? I didn’t see you…” have Wade get all pissy and THEN cue Sheamus to step in and stop Barrett from bullying some WWE worker half his size?
I CAN HAZ MOAR BADGES? :’(
No JSM 4:20 signs? For shame, WWE Universe!!!
sheamus’s oscar snubs. couldn’t someone like tyson kidd or justin gabriel fill that time with a wrestling match?
i know wade barrett isn’t the main character in dead man down, but still having sheamus make fun of an actor in the movie probably won’t make people want to see it.
Miz tv is maybe the worst recurring segment ever
Jack Swagger’s music ain’t nothin to fuck wit.
+WuTangClan
Jack Swagger’s music makes me anticipate either a Diva or a cruiserweight.
My internet had the pewpiez. Sorry I couldn’t kick it, wrassle broz.
R-Truth is a grown man, he can spray paint his jeans in whatever way he wants.
watching the late showing. seriously, what the f*** are they doing with dolph ziggler?
His evil plot to become the World Heavyweight Champion keeps being foiled by his incompetent, albeit loveable, band of misfit friends.
So he’s like the Skeletor of the WWE?
+TANDEM BEST
+Better be in the top ten
What a great match. I’m a little bummed about it for the same reasons heading in: I think Cena-Punk could use even more time after Wrestlemania, and I think this match takes a bit of steam out of it. I doubt they’ll care. These guys will surely headline some post-Mania PPVs. But I think it would have been a natural transition to a fuming/robbed Punk post-Mania challenging Cena, because Cena’s never beat him when it mattered.
The match was still close enough that they could still swing it. Ultimately, I won’t complain about receiving amazing, free wrestling.
The last match was great but I am disappointed that Raw did not end with Mick Foley coming out to tell Punk “See this is why you aren’t main eventing Wrestlemania! You failed to beat John Cena the arbitrary number of times I selected to determine whether or not you are worthy of main event status.” All I want is continuity, people.
Yes!
+1
+1
For anyone unaware, WWE banned most moves that involved dropping a wrestler on their underneath the weight of his/her own body (‘drivers, DVDs, brainbusters, etc.) after a rash of career-threatening neck/spinal cord injuries to top guys including Austin, Edge, Lita, and HWSNBN. It should be mentioned that the WWE made these changes after several of those injuries had already occured, and only after a returning Undertaker, debuting his American Bad Ass character, botched a Tombstone resulting in a very shaken-up Shane McMahon. Eventually, when ‘Taker returned to the Deadman gimmick, he was allowed to use the Tombstone again but that was pretty much the sole exception. There’s also a greater inherent safety in the “Tombstone”/inverted piledriver since the wrestler receiving the move can be held above the mat and only recieve the impact of dropping on to his/her back after the supposed impact on the top of the head. The piledriver we saw tonight depends on the wrestler recieving the move to brace the impact with the top of his shoulders and trapezius pressed against the front of the other wrestler’s legs to prevent his head from hitting the ground.
Also, I’ve harped tonight that the last time we saw that move in WWE was in one (or both?) of the Undertaker/HBK ‘Mania matches. The one instance I can remember clearly was HBK piledriving ‘Taker on to the lower level of the steel steps (this was also a callback to a spot that was done in their brutal 1998 Royal Rumble Casket Match). I remember thinking that the allowance of that spot showed, to me anyway, the implicit trust WWE had in HBK to execute this, even as a much older man than he was when he first did it, against a man much older than he was when first took it, and, either 4 years ago or 13 years ago, against a guy almost 100 lbs. heavier.
Point is: WWE allowing Punk to use THAT move, in THAT context, demonstrates to me that WWE now implicitly trusts Punk, and that Cena (the real one) implicitly trusts Punk and meant it when his character claimed last year that the only guy who could hang with him was Punk.
Consider also: the greatness of that kind of match. They used the requsite WWE strike/brawl-heavy offense, combined with signature spots (mixed-up, resequenced, and unexpectedly cut-off for the occasion), and a couple of spots featuring classic moves all melded together.
+1
Meltzer already saying Vince blew his stack when they did the move, so it could just be that they played the “What’s he gonna do about it?” card.
However, this was a great post. +1
Also, Droz.
Sooooo…… I think we can safely say that this was easily the best WWE match since the MITB 2011 Punk/Cena match right? Now all we need to do is get Cesaro, D-Bry and Ziggy some main event cred and we can have Cena, Punk, Sheamus, D-Bry, Cesaro and Dolph giving PPV quality matches every week.
Why I’m I still trolling here…?!
That was a match of the year caliber outing by both and I loved every single goddamned second of it. These two guys work so brilliantly together it makes my eyes water. THIS is why I watch wrestling. THIS is why I love the art. THIS is why I keep coming back. Nights like tonight validate my fandom of this sometimes frustrating, often beautful art.
+1
+This!
+Rhodes
couldnt have said it better.
we as fans deal w/a lot of shit but when it’s amazing, it reminds me why i put up with all the crap
They gave us 26 minutes that reminded us why we put up with the other 160 minutes. When they remind me why it is I spend so much time and thought on this…it makes every bit of it worth it.
I know everyone’s sort of excited about Taker v Punk; but I have to assume that Taker is in even worse shape than Rock is. The match is bound to be a letdown.
Taker’s body been a wreck for a couple of years but he seems to bring it regardless.
Not if Punk wins.
I don’t think it’s likely, but say Undertaker is retiring and wants to give back to the THIS BUSINESS…
Seems like the way they went about, even Lawler saying ‘Taker would be “a part of Wrestlemania” seemed to avoid saying he would defend the streak in an official match with weeks of build-up. I think some mid-card heel comes out at ‘Mania (probably but god I hope not Claudio) and cuts a generic “NY is a cesspool” heel promo and ‘Taker interrupts and beats the guy up and poses.
Can you imagine how arrogant & boastful Punk will be if he ended the greatest streak in all of sports entertainment on top of having the longest WWE Champions reign of the past 25 years, nobody will hear the end of it (Whether it’s from a face Punk or heel Punk) nobody.
True, on both points. Although I would say– if Taker is out of shape– it’s easier to fake his way through a brawl with another big guy (Triple H) than what *should* be a faster-paced match with someone like Punk.
I would be beyond thrilled if Punk beat Taker– if nothing else, it would allow Punk to continue to be a huge thorn in Cena’s side: “Oh, you beat Rock? That’s cute. I ended The Streak.”
…But I can’t imagine them allowing anything to overshadow Cena regaining the belt. Sadly. It’s going to be a pretty ho-hum ending to Mania.
Whoops. The “true, on both points” was in reference to Doc and shabby. I’m slow.
In Undi’s defense, the guy is much more dedicated to the profession than The Rock is. Whenever I see The Rock on Raw now, I just think of Gus Van Sant in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
(Right around the 48-second mark) [www.youtube.com]
Serious match of the year quality right there.
Rock/Cena II: The Mulligan
“This time, we’ll put the right guy over.”
Rock/Cena II: But They’ve Got A New Hat!
After that match and that Piledriver, I say they call an audible and throw Runk vs Cena for the title at Mania and feed Rock to Taker.
Runk? Is that like a WWE megazord?
Hoping see tonight’s main event at WM 30.
Look, Cena the character has some well known faults, but Cena the Big Match Wrestler is among the greatest of all-time. It’s fun to joke about Cena, the five moves of doom, but name me another top-tier WWE guy who raises his game as much as Cena for big matches?
I can’t remember the last time I saw a piledriver in WWE.
I think John Cena and CM Punk make that decision themselves. If Vince is pissed, Cena can go, “Look the match needed it. You’re not going to fire me and if you fire or punish Punk, we’ll go have the rematch on Impact. Understood?”
Besides the Undertaker or Kane? Probably not one since Owen on Austin.
Like when HHH/Taker used chair shots to the head. Because who can stop them?
Yes non-tombstone varieties.
I’d agree that the 2 of them have enough pull that they did that w/out telling anyone, consequences be damned.
shawn gave two to Cena in two separate matches back in 07 I believe
Yeah, seriously. At worst, they are looking at fine. I mean… could you imagine how foolish they’d be firing either one of them over it. You basically just gave TNA license to be a legit national competitor with them.
HBK gave one to Cena in their Wrestlemania match for sure.
So what is Cena up to now, like Seven Moves of Doom? Eight?
It seems like a normal RAW match (and the first 6-7 minutes of tonight’s) has the spinning belly-to-back, 5-knuckle-shuffle, AA as the truncated Three Moves of Doom, usually with the running shoulder block as a Fourth. Then he has the ‘rana (which he been doing for some time, I think he did it to Ziggs at TLC), the sit-out powerbomb (which I’ve never seen before tonight), the top-rope Fame-Asser, SSTF (shitty STF), he busts out a drop-kick from time to time… I dunno, that’s 8-9, obviously not including transitonal bodyslams and route vertical suplexes and the Superplex, which everyone does.
Cena’s no Sheamus, that’s for sure.
Good Night guys!
Rock/CenaII: The New Batch I’ll Be Making To Xvideos Instead of Watching This Match.
Not sure I’d want to be friends with anyone who would complain about Cena’s ‘rana after a match like that. That’s why we watch, right?
But… but… IMPACTFUL MOVEZ!! That’s what pro grapz is really about.
Actually he first busted out a Magistral in his Iron Man match vs HHH as I recall.
God dammit, wrong comment.
ok… I’ll stop complaining about it.
So after that,,,,what is the Rock’s sloppiest move. I nominate the belly to belly off the ropes with his float over ddt being a close second.
The Sharpshooter
His Sharpshooter makes me physically angry.
And I quite like his belly to belly throw.
Oh yeah, his sharpshooter is terrible
His belly to belly fling was once once better like most of his moves, but I must concede that Shartshooter of his is worse than my picks.
His straight belly-to-belly was cool back when he fueded with Shamrock and Owen, that throw thing was a step backwards. Same goees for the float-over DDT, looked nice and fluid wwhen he started, got sloppier in execution around 2001. He debuted a pretty terrible La Magistral cradle when he came back in 2011.
“What is the rock’s sloppiest move?”
All of them. He’s an actor playing a pro wrestler, and always has been.
His Shartshooter isn’t allowed on TV.
@monkeytorture There’s so much wrong with that statement, I don’t know where to begin.
out of everything his sharpshooter is the absolute worst
He won’t wrestle on tv, so of course the Shartshooter is never to been seen in all its Vintage glory.
Well, we can agree that his Shartshooter is his sloppiest move, by default.
CM Punk vs The Undertaker WM?! Lesnar – HHH is pretty much confirmed, ADR – Swagger is locked, Cena – Rock is is a main event we’ve known for weeks, D-Bryan & Kane, Undertaker – Punk. Maybe Kaitlyn vs Tamina are matches so far I can see happening
Haha. A one on one diva match at Wrestlemania. That is a good joke.
I could see Punk continuing his god of wrestling thing which could anger the Taker.
Oh my god. YES! YES! YES! CM Punk vs. Undertaker! Why am I so excited even though I’ll probably be let down?
Ziggler/Jericho seems a lock too. Can’t figure out what the hell they are gonna do with Henry, Shield, Sheamus, Orton or Big Show, though.
Matches I would like to see is Gold Dust vs Cody(Without the mustache) & & Sheamus vs Roman Reigns(I dont know why I want to see this match so bad)…
Shield could wind up with Sheamus/Orton/Ryback. In a world of sense the Shield goes over with a Ryback turn.
Oh & If wwe creative is reading this…have ziggles vs Jericho. ADR vs Swagger. Have zinggles cash in after ADR beats swagger. Turn the match with Jericho into a WHC match. have Ziggles win the match. Jericho gets to tour again after WM, Swagger serve his suspension, & ADR get he’s rematch at Xtreme Rules 3 weeks later. Just a thought.
@Ron8E9, why without the love stache?
I took a Unisom sleeping pill at 10:45 and I was dozing off around 10:55. That match woke me up and counteracted the sleeping pill.
+PowerOfWrestling
The hurricanrana wasn’t near perfect but it was impressive to see him jump like a kangaroo on Punk’s shoulders.
Cena/Punk on Raw is to Cena/Rock at ‘Mania is what Empire was to Jedi, or Dark Knight to TDKR if you wanna be more current. Rock is Ewoks and Catwoman in this example, he’s Cat-Wok.
So I wandered away to play video games but I came back just in time to watch Cena do all of the moves.
Additionally, I have discovered the true meaning of art. It’s looking at a fox looking at portraits.
[www.dailymotion.com]
Note to self: buy “The Best of Raw & Smackdown 2013″ when it comes out next year. That match was freaking awesome.
That was tremendous. The cenacanrana blows, but hey, they were going for it. Rocky can’t properly execute any three moves they did in that match, and he wouldn’t even try.
The move sucks, but it’s nice that he actually had to do something different to put Punk away unlike every match he’s had for a couple of years.
It was good stuf.
I think I would’ve preferred that nasty powerbomb in the finish and the Cenacanrana earlier in the match. That powerbomb and the piledriver were way off the main sequence and really went a long way towards distinguishing this from the other Cena-Punk battles.
Yeah that powerbomb/piledriver sequence was choice. You always see that “what does he have to do to put him away?!” thing happen I. These big matches, and the answer is always “more finishers.” Nice to see them actually pull other high impact stuff out to give that feeling some credence
That’s supposed to read “in these big matches.”
I’m with Fancy Catsup. If that rana had been in the middle of the match and the sit down powerbomb had been at the end it would have been better. Still that’s like saying your ice cream sundae only had one cherry instead of two.
Right. I agree that Cena should’ve tried it earlier in the match. The last one he did (I can’t recall the match) wasn’t good either, but was better than this one. I think he was too tired to do something so very out of his wheelhouse. Still, hats off for going for it.
And here I thought no Jericho and Bryan stuck in a blindfold would mean no good match tonight.
Now if Cena would learn how to sell instead of making “I smell a gas leak” faces…
The Rock couldn’t even phone it in, he just Tweets.
And he used all 140 charecters so no one could respond to it… what a dick.
to be fair, he most likely sent that tweet from his phone…
If you think The Rock actually watches RAW, then you’re sadly mistaken my friend.
Best Free TV match in a long time. Best WWE match period in a long time. Punk VS Cena always works, its a shame they can’t go at Wrestlemania.
Punk/Y2J and D-Bry/Y2J were near the level of this match, especially when you consider there was literally zero momentum going into them.
I also recall a great Cena/Ziggler opener in January, sloppy finish aside.
John Cena and CM Punk got together and said “Vince ain’t going to fire us. If The Rock wants the main event of WrestleMania, that’s fine. We’ll give away the main event for free!”
Word
+1
This is a really sound story. Cena has finally, cleanly vanquished the biggest cause of his problems over the last two years, CM Punk. Now, he can begin to seek redemption, which is becoming WWE Champion again. The story is sound, it’s just the execution that is shit.
Its unfortunate that it leaves the man who carried their main belt for over a year without a program heading into the biggest show of the year.
Totally agree. And let’s not forget that Cena recently put over the Shield, spent a year and a half being unable to beat Punk, and then when he does beat Punk it’s in what could end up as match of the year.
Like a lot of WWE nowadays. Well said.
I can’t fault the match at all. The match was great. But I find fault in the story; specifically, giving the payoff to an almost two year drought of wins over Punk on some random Raw as a stepping stone for Cena’s Mania match against the Rock. This was the match that should’ve been the next step for Cena after Mania. A match that could, and should, have headlined its own PPV and had its own weeks of buildup. Cena finally beating Punk decisively is kind of a huge deal, and a story element that shouldn’t be sacrificed on the altar of Twice in a Lifetime.
You know what sucks. This is the culmination of John cena’s redemptive comeback. What we’ve gotten the last year and a half is him at his lowest. I shudder to think what WWE’s vision of John Cena on the top of the mountain. Winter is coming…
The timelines can get even darker…
#HeelTurn
I’m still waiting for the Doctor of Thuganomics to come back.
No heal will be safe from his burials. Whole teams will be destroyed in his path.
We have officially entered the darkest timeline.
My felt is cutout and ready
Cena never gives up, even during Lent.
+11
Awesome fucking match. Period.
Amen