A brief place-setting and match listing from Travis Hughes at SBN:
Rangers coach John Tortorella and Devils coach Peter DeBoer were jawing at one another before the game, perhaps as a result of the lineup card handed in by New Jersey. Nevertheless, when the lineups came out for each team, New York had an equal amount of firepower ready:
Devils: Eric Boulton, Cam Janssen, Ryan Carter, Marek Zidlicky, Bryce Salvador
Rangers: Brandon Prust, Brandon Dubinsky, Stu Bickel, Mike Rupp, Marc StaalThat’s a good way to assure some bloodshed. The players all knew what they were out there to do, the fans knew it was coming, and everybody watching at home knew what was coming. Then, it happened.
I guess I’ve got the wrong perspective on professional sports, but what’s so bad about the New Orleans Saints setting up bounties to injure opposing players when hockey is premeditating gang fights? Hockey fights are cool and all, derp derp, but when they happen with entire teams before hockey has been played, that’s not cool, that’s unprofessional, childish, stupid, any number of negative adjectives you wanna throw at it. You’re orchestrating a situation that causes me to watch a dude’s blood splatter, and poor Sidney Crosby is standing there a few teams over with a head that barely works. None of this seems productive.
Well, maybe it could be productive. Is five-on-five MMA a thing yet?
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
Fight for your parents love!
Shut the hell up Brandon. Hockey fights are part of the game and exist for a reason. Just because you don’t understand *why* these guys are dropping their gloves and punching each other in the face doesn’t mean its not happening for a reason (we’ve all seen your picture you doughy, flat footed, unathletic lookin’ mope). To make the comparison that since certain people around the NFL are crying about bounties (i.e. ESPN) when everyone knows that that shit happens league wide, the NHL should now suddenly not condone or even support fighting in *their* game is silly and is even more evidence of the pussification of this great country.
The guys lining up for the drop last night were not finesse stars (or “the skinny, fast guys” if you’re equating it to NES hockey). You mentioned Sidney Crosby and his jelly head. He doesn’t fight. He got hurt when some d-bag blindsided him face first into the boards. No, the guys going at it last night were (for the most part) ALL career fighters! I went to hockeyfights.com to get numbers (this year alone): Boulton w/ 9, Janssen w/ 8, Carter w/ 5, Prust w/ 19(!), Bickel w/ 11 (w/ 8 more in the AHL), and Rupp w/ 12.
Rather than call for hockey to do away with fighting, stand up to the fem’s who are crying about bounties in football. You don’t have to hate something just because a few people on tv tell you to.
Is it really “part of the game,” though? The NHL and the QMJHL are the only internationally-known leagues that haven’t instituted zero-tolerance policies toward fighting. And given the high profile occurrences of career enforcers killing themselves over the past couple of years (Derek Boogaard, Bob Probert- who were both better reference points than Crosby), all with brains resembling 80 year olds, maybe the NHL should take that leap. You don’t have to love something just because troglodyte-brained Don Cherry told you to.
And this is from a Devils fan that loved watching Mike Peluso wreck shit back in the day.
There’s no call for that, Duto. Attitudes like that are indeed why so many think of hockey as a game of barbaric neanderthals punching each other, and the fact that you cannot separate opinions about sports from personal attacks on Brandon makes me wonder if you, in fact, have been hit in the head. It’s certainly not a logical or rational response.
@Keith: Are you counting the AHL and ECHL in your total since they’re NHL farm teams? Or do you not consider those “internationally-known”? (The amount of international players in them would seem to say otherwise.) And Bob Probert didn’t kill himself, he had a heart attack. Yes, he had brain damage, but Probert had a bevy of problems going way back that aren’t directly attributable to his fighting. And Probert’s Bruise Brother, Joey Kocur, owns his own business. You’re right to say that nobody has to love fighting because Grapes told them too, but we don’t need to dramatize here.
The fact that people can’t seem to disagree with me without bringing “pussies” into it should show you how unhealthy the point of view is.
@Aude: Apologies for over-reporting. I coulda sworn Probert had killed himself, but if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. And no, I wasn’t counting the NHL farm leagues, but considering that a goodly amount of those international players were drafted by NHL teams, I’d consider them part and parcel of the NHL, while the QMJHL is an independent entity.
Also, holy shit, Joey Kocur. Good to hear he’s doing well.
@Brandon: Hey! I didn’t refer to female genitalia once!
Seriously Brandon stop being such a pussy. Stick to the greased up speedo wearing steroid freaks you idolise and leave the real sports to those who are less pussified by todays social norms.
I literally can’t tell if you are being intentionally over the top for comedic effect or not, which may or may not be a bad sign.
People are killing themselves because their brains are getting fucked up from getting so many concussions from fighting all the time in hockey. Sorry you’re such a sociopath you see nothing wrong with that.
I don’t have a statistic handy, but I don’t think concussions as a result of hockey fights are that common. Really, very few punches in a fight connect hard enough and direct enough to rattle somebody’s brain around in their skull.
I don’t think I even have to respond to the other comment.
Well I mean, it happened to 3 different guys in like the last year. Clearly goons are putting themselves in a position of permanent brain damage that, while a minority, is still a few lives too many for me.
I’m not saying outlaw fighting in hockey, but something needs to be done about this “fuck that guy up” mentality of sending goons out there just to cause damage and what not. A high school player in Minnesota got paralyzed from the neck down last season because of getting checked from behind, and the same thing nearly happened to a girl a week later. I get that sports, hockey perhaps above all non-combat team sports, are physical as hell and it’s exciting to watch and what have you. But why does it have to reach the point of people getting their neck broken or brain fucked up?
Ergo cum latte, the two incidences you cite were checks from behind that had nothing to do with fighting. I don’t know what your point is. If you are insinuating that enforcers are generally dangerous, I think you are sadly mistaken. How many of these guys have taken cheap shots on other players? A few, but not many. Know the code, enforcers only gang up on other enforcers. It’s relatively rare that you’ll hear about a concussion resulting from a fight. Most of them are the results of cheap shots and sometimes even not so cheap shots by borderline players.
As mentioned by AudeSapere below, Probert did not kill himself. Neither did Boogard. Granted they were troubled people and died partly from a hard life and self abuse. What’s missing from all the alleged studies (by which I mean all the anecdotal evidence and heresy) is the propensity for similar post-career problems for regular players. I would defy you to tell me with a straight face that Eric Lindros’ brain is 100% healthy. LaFontaine did not retire early because he got punched in the head. Finding chronic traumatic encephalopathy in a couple enforcer’s brains, which you can only find after death, btw, does not indicate an epidemic. Perhaps we wait for some other non-enforcers to die and study their brains, too. Dollars to donuts they’re just as damaged.
What’s also missing is any mention of the enforcers that do not fit this alleged ‘mold’ of damaged, injured people. Stu Grimson, currently a lawyer for the NHL. Princeton graduate George Parros. Georges Laraque the restaurateur. For each damaged enforcer there are dozens that are fine, upstanding citizens.
Until someone does a comprehensive study of the entire league, I will not believe that being an enforcer has any greater influence on your personal life than being a regular player. There are plenty of f’ed up players who are not enforcers.
Wow, Brandon you suck.
don’t worry, my next 10 posts are about how sweet dogfighting is
Yes, because the 2 are totally the same. What with the hockey players being bred and tortured specifically for fighting to the death and are murdered if they aren’t deemed capable of ripping out an opponent’s jugular.
As opposed to my fellow hockey brethren, who seem content to simply call you a wussy and a bitch, I will offer what I feel to be a reasonable counterpoint. In my eyes to say it was a premeditated gang fight would be a bit of an oversimplification. If you see in advance that the opposition has put out three players whose sole purpose at the start of a game would be to create havoc and put people down, why would you respond with putting your three most talented, yet also less inclined to fight, to face them?
What New Jersey did last night was basically similar to the bounty system we both agree is wrong. You put three players whose purpose it is to cause injury out with hopes that they will place their three top scorers out against them and allow themselves to be at your mercy. What Tortorella did was use the advanced knowledge of this plan to replace these players with a triumvirate more inclined to fight back.
I love hockey, and I was raised in a household that believed very strongly in hockey’s code of retribution but I do feel that your view, or at least the piece of it you communicated, is a bit too black and white than the fighting culture allows.
Lets pretend I made a clever reference and/or a dick joke.
The Devils didn’t put them out to cause injury. That’s what Brandon (and you, apparently) are getting wrong here.
Enforcers rarely have intent to cause injury. The Devils had a crap performance against the Penguins in their last game and needed something to get their intensity up immediately.
Normally I would agree with you, but with plays like Clarkson leaving his feet to hit Dubinsky, Salvador boarding Sauer, and the other nonsense that took place in the previous meeting (which took place during a stretch in which the Devils had won 6 of 8) I don’t feel that you could necessarily make the argument that the bad blood hasn’t reached a point of intent to injure.
Valid point
However, I can’t believe the Devils put those guys out there with hopes that Richards and Gabby would be across the ice, giving them a full shift of a cheap shots.
Maybe that lends to one of Brandon’s initial disgusts about this that the fight was almost too premeditated, but I guess I’d rather have a scheduled goon vs. goon fight than a goon going out to hurt a skill player.
@mighty914: Pleasue having a reasoned out and rational discussion about hockey with you, good sir. I definitely see your points and agree with the end statement that I’d rather see two people who know what they’re doing out there than the few times I’ve seen someone like Gretzky or Jagr try to throw hammers. Even somebody like Dubinsky who doesn’t fight as often but is still no stranger to it makes me nervous when they drop the gloves.
I gotta agree with John here. Tortorella was jawing because he saw the lineup card to start the game. 3 guys normally reserved for thugging out were handed to Tortorella. This is a heated feud, so if it’s ‘You wanna play that game”, you know Torts is gonna bite.
I’d have done the same thing. And zero tolerance does nothing. If you get suspended for 3 games, the next big goon in the minors gets called up.
It was a foolish play on the Devils’ part for two simple reasons: The Rangers are now 9-0-1 when Rupp gets into a fight within the first minute. Also, the Rangers were in a bit of a slump and being outworked by other teams. They aren’t the most talented squad, but they are the toughest and hardest working, which is why they are tops in the East. So, NJ provoked them for no reason and then they got their asses kicked on the ice and on the scoreboard.
Just, very foolish on the Devils part but much appreciated by me. After more Miami Dolphins shame, I needed one of my teams to get me off the ledge.
You could not be more dead on. I’m a Rangers fan, and they have been sluggish lately, while at the same time the Devils have been our main antagonizers, with bizarre late victories and Brodeur playing like it’s ten years ago. The fight last night got everyone revved up, you had Torts on the bench screaming for blood, and the goal a minute later brought it to fever pitch. Blueshirts weren’t losing after that. The Penguins should be pissed at the Devs.
Japan’s slowly working on 5-on-5 MMA. Right now they’re at tag team matches with the semi-legit ZST: [www.youtube.com]
I like Brandon’s writing but this just made me roll my eyes. I was watching the game and it was pretty exciting, especially since I had no stake in the game (Sharks fan). Stuff like Marty McSorley macheteing Donald Brashear and intent to injure on flying hits have no part in the game, but fighting does. Also doesn’t matter that it started the game, when two teams have a history of hating each other, it doesn’t take a big hit on a star player to kick off a fight.
I’m with Joh John and Duto. And Shazaaman’s first sentence
At tonight’s performance, the role of the Fireworks Factory will be played by Best and Worst column
*audible groans from crowd* a few get up to leave…
You need to follow me on Twitter.
I saw the Real Sports w/Bryant Gumbel segment on hockey enforcers and the spike in early deaths last year. Since then, I’m not all that interested in hockey fights. If you want to fight, go into boxing or MMA. If you want to play hockey, play hockey.
I’m just saying, I know WHY the fights happen (retribution for cheap shots, sending a message, etc.). I’m just saying that the only thing that got me to watch hockey before is now the biggest reason for me to not watch it.
I personally see no problem with this, but I respect the opinions of those who do. Like previous comments, both enforcer lines started this game in order to give said boost to a sluggish team.
This is not what hockey needs to get rid of. Cheap shots, blindsided headshots, and Gary Bettman is what hockey needs to get rid of.