In light of the recent events in Tucson, Arizona on Saturday, North Carolina Congressman Heath Shuler has made an interesting public statement. Shuler played quarterback at Tennessee, and then for the Washington Redskins, before being elected to represent North Carolina’s 11th district in 2006.
Shuler says he’ll now make it a practice to carry the permitted handgun when he is away from Capitol Hill, where lawmakers rely on Capitol Police for security.
Shuler says his staff members have also gone through the training and background checks needed for the legal permit to carry concealed handguns.
I’m not espousing my personal beliefs here, but it’s interesting that as some people are calling for tighter gun control legislation, one Congressman is making a point to show that he actually feels safer carrying one. But when one considers Shuler’s 49 percent career completion percentage, he certainly wouldn’t be in as much danger as those standing near his targets. That’s a joke, people. Don’t email me.
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He should just hire Kevin Costner.
I guess we should also stop referring to Brett Favre as a gunslinger. Cockslinger is less offensive and just as accurate!
It seems like places with tight gun control laws tend to have more gun crimes. So much for tighter gun control laws.
You think Arizona has tight gun control laws, UU? Seriously?
Arizona received a score of 2 out of 100 from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The only reason they didn’t get a perfect zero rating is because Arizona hasn’t started requiring college campuses to let people carry concealed weapons.
[www.bradycampaign.org]
Gun control won’t solve everything, no. But if Arizona didn’t allow the sale of 30+ shot extended magazines for Glocks like this guy used, then he would’ve only been able to get off 15 shots before he was tackled, not 30.
I’m with Otto. It’s not like anybody ever guaranteed citizens the right to keep an bear arms.
The tighter the gun control, the better. Felons aren’t allowed to buy or possess guns or even a single round of ammunition in the city of Baltimore. Those laws are credited with turning the city into a peaceful utopia, right?
@Otto, no I wasn’t talking about Arizona. My wife’s uncle is a retired Phoenix cop and he has told me about their gun laws. I was thinking about NY since I live here.
Also, even if the 30 round clip was banned this guy just could have used 2 guns with 15 round clips or a bomb strapped to his chest for that matter.
Anyway, sorry about the Chiefs this weekend.
i dun luv my gun with all my hart!! I caint pitcher a singel day without my gun. its my rite to carry it jus as it my rite to mak sweet luv to my deer Geraldine… sweet sweet Geraldine. an u gun hatin yanky luvin bassturds can jus suk my dik!
Go ayeseesee!
When the Founders wrote the Second Amendment, they included the rationale for it — the need to have “a well-regulated militia.” Citizens were entitled to bear arms only because the government was going to need them for defense, and even then the Founders insisted it be “well-regulated.” So yes, the Founders were for gun control.
Before you reply with your NRA talking points, let me add this — I actually knew one of the people who was killed in Tucson this weekend. Anyone who wants to use their deaths as a stump speech against gun control can go fuck themselves. Repeatedly.
SEC Rebal has quickly become the funniest WL commenter in a long time.
If SEC Rebal loves guns then we all should. Guns for all, miniature American flags also for all!
@Otto, sorry to hear that.
Also, even if the 30 round clip was banned this guy just could have used 2 guns with 15 round clips or a bomb strapped to his chest for that matter.
Sure, he could have. Why not make him go to that length? Why not put even the slightest hurdle out there for him?
Sorry, but I just don’t see the need for a 30-round clip. Ever.
Thanks, UU.
SEC Rebal, don’t ever change.
And I offer condolences to Otto.
“Shuler’s 49 percent career completion percentage, he certainly wouldn’t be in as much danger as those standing near his targets.”
Joke of the week!
*waits for Lou Dobbs to correlate the shooting of politicians to the influence of illegal immigrants from Latin America have for being in America.*
Otto, I understand that you choose to read a collective rights interpretation of the second amendment. There is some ambiguity in the sentence construction. I hope that you can understand that sentence construction, context in the Bill of Rights, English common law basis and 200 years of American jurisprudence (including the recent Heller decision) all support it as both an individual and collective right.
I’m terribly sorry your buddy lost their life. But calm down and place blame where blame is due, and that is on the mentally unstable individual who commited the act and not the method that he chose.
I’m sorry for your loss Otto.
The phrase, well regulated, was referring to the militia, not the guns. That’s not an NRA talking point. That’s a non-spin reading of the Constitution. I don’t own a gun, have never shot a gun and have never felt the need for a gun. Instead of weasel wording around the constitution, gun opponents should get the constitution amended to abolish militias and actually regulate the guns. Anything less smacks of tyranny of the minority.
I love the argument that this was just some lone nut, and no one else bears responsibility — not the NRA who made sure there would be any safeguards to keep guns out of the hands of lone nuts like him, and certainly not the right-wing politicians and pundits who denounced their political opponents as traitors who were intent on destroying the country and had to be stopped at any cost.
Crazy people are out there, yes. Maybe the least the rest of us could do is (1) not point them in the direction of specific targets and (2) try to keep killing devices out of their hands.
My friend is dead. But please, do continue the debating society discussion.
That sounded like sarcasm.
I am very sorry for your loss, but I think you’re placing blame in the wrong place. I’ve had a friend shot and killed. I have also had another friend killed by a drunk driver. I don’t blame alcohol and I don’t blame guns. I love to drink and I love to shoot guns. Blame the people behind the actions. Where were this kid’s parents/elders? You don’t develop this ype of insanity over night (without wicked drugs). This is why abortion shouldn’t be illegal. Kill this piece of shit while he is a little festering fetus. I love booze, guns, and abortions… am I an Independent? Help!
Blame the people behind the actions.
I am.
We used to have laws that kept guns out of the hands of crazy people, now we don’t. We used to have a political system that didn’t have candidates talking about “Second Amendment remedies” and “using the bullet if the ballot doesn’t work,” and now we do. Put those together, and it’s a direct line to Tucson.
This nutjob deserves the blame, yes. But the people who stand against any kind of sensible gun regulation and the people who use violent rhetoric about their political opponents and call for their elimination also deserve some of the blame.
Man, I remember when conservatives used to present themselves as the party of personal responsibility. Now it’s just, “Hey, crazy people. Who knew they’d take us seriously?”
Drugs are illegal by law, yet people who want to get them can still get them.
Sadly enough even passing more rules, regulations, etc to make guns harder to get will not keep them out of the hands of the people that want to commit crimes.
Oh, well in that case, we should just leave loaded handguns on every street corner.
Better a child should be shot in the face than you have to wait a day for your rocket launcher.
Breesus, way to shit on what was a civil exchange with your overly dramatic hyperbole. Nobody’s talking about rocket launchers.
@UU and Sensei
Let’s try a thought experiment: Picture yourself in line at a supermarket. You know how quick witted you are, and that you have lightning reflexes and SEAL-level CBQ training with the Beretta 9mm under your jacket (you don’t, actually, but you think you do). The problem is, all the other mouth-breathing idiots in the store with you are also strapped (and are, presumably, just as confident as you). Every oldster with cataracts, every tweaker and housewife and 100-lb college coed and over-the-hill vet with delusions of heroism. Now, some madman has run into the store, pulled a gun, and started firing! EVERYBODY draws down and starts shooting! Now do you feel like (a) this is how the founding fathers meant for things to end up, or (b) everyone would be a bit safer if guns were slightly harder for every fuck-knuckle in the USofA to get?
I’ll limit my opining here to this: After Michaelangelo finished painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, nobody gave any credit to the brushes.
We’re all frustrated and we’re all pissed off, and we’re not going to change anyone else’s minds.
Dick joke.
@otto et al: stick to the gun control argument, you’re making some sense to me (and I’m one step away from SEC Rebal). The invective argument is tenuous and it takes away from the good one you’re making.
Oh, and everybody should remember that there’s a formerly to be wedded woman without a fiance, parents without children, children without parents and grandparents, and for god’s sake a class of 7 year olds without a class president. All from 15 seconds of one individual’s actions with a pistol.
EDIT – 9 year olds. My apologies to the late Christina Green. It was my 7 year old daughter when I woke up in a cold sweat this morning.
Nobody’s talking about rocket launchers.
Rocket launchers are beyond the pale? OK, so tell me — where exactly is the line?
When UU brought up the issue of gun control and said it was useless, I said there should be restrictions on the sale of 30+ clips for Glocks. Not on Glocks themselves, but on the 30+ clip extension. That’s a modification that makes that gun an assault weapon, pure and simple, and without it, this guy might have only been able to kill three people instead of six.
That’s all I said — there should be restrictions on the clip extenders — and the Second Amendment brigade started to clutch their pearls in horror.
So, tell me: Where do you draw the line?
If you all are going to insist that the Founders’ vision for the Second Amendment, written in an era of ball musketry and bayonets, was somehow meant to cover 30+ clips for Glocks, how much further do you take it?
The NRA insists individuals have a right to armor-piercing bullets and plastic handguns. So why not an RPG? That’s a handheld weapon, too. Don’t you have a right to bear that as well. How about a .50 cal if you’re strong enough to hold it? Does that count?
Again, the Second Amendment is the only one that speaks directly about regulation of the rights within the article. Contrast that to the First Amendment, which explicitly says “Congress shall make no law” and yet we have plenty of restrictions on free speech, from bans on obscenity and pornography to hate speech codes.
No one is coming for your handguns or your shotguns or your hunting rifles. No one. Those are figments of the right-wing paranoia mill.
But what’s real is a nine-year-old girl, a congresswoman, a federal judge, and a dozen or so others were all shot by a nut because he had the ability to shoot 30 bullets instead of 15 before reloading. I’m not saying we need to ban the gun, or the 15 bullet cartridge, or anything like that. I’m just saying, hey, maybe someone with legitimate uses for a Glock doesn’t need those extra 15 bullets.
I can’t for the life of me understand why that’s so fucking controversial.
Jesus, sorry that’s so long. It’s been a shitty weekend.
@PUNTE
Brushes don’t hold 30 bullets, Punte. Spraypainting just any old thing is illegal. No one commissioned Jared Loughner to shoot innocent people. Sorry, but that’s a pretty useless analogy.
/dick joke
//another dick joke
Sorry, but that’s a pretty useless analogy.
Sorry, but you took that way too literally.
/taps
/loses in taps on purpose
Otto you’re a liberal douchebag. Who sid the following:
“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
“Get in Their Faces!”
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
“Hit Back Twice As Hard”
“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to Fight for it.”
“Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”
The teleprompter in charge that’s who.
For those of you who read:
“More guns, less crime”
“Why everything you know about gun control is wrong”
Both by John Lott
Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously?
I mean, I know you’re a mouthbreathing retard from your posts at KSK, but you think because the president said Democrats should “fight” in the election that’s the same as what conservatives did, that’s the same as calling their opponents traitors, putting them in gunsights, and urging actual violence against them?
Here’s a sampling from your side from just the last two years. There aren’t a lot of quotes from “The Untouchables,” but there’s some good stuff all the same.
March 21-22, 2009 — Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) states that she wants residents of her state to be “armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”
July 15, 2009 — Katherine Crabill (Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates 99th District) makes headlines by calling on Americans to resist the course President Obama has set for the country. Appearing at a “Tea Party” rally “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that’s the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.”
August 25, 2009 – Rex Rammell, (candidate in the 2010 Idaho Republican Primary) remarks on “Obama hunting tags” at a discussion about state-issued tags for wolf hunting.”The Obama tags? We’d buy some of those.” In a subsequent press release, he adds, “Anyone who understands the law knows I was just joking, because Idaho has no jurisdiction to issue hunting tags in Washington, D.C.”
August 26, 2009 — Debra Medina (Texas gubernatorial candidate) “We are aware that stepping off into secession may in fact be a bloody war. We are aware. We understand that the tree of freedom is occasionally watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.”
September 28, 2009— Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), Chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force in the U.S. House of Representatives, calls House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a “domestic enemy of the Constitution”
April 10, 2010 — Martha Dean (Republican candidate for Attorney General in Connecticut) “If government is legitimate and truly is the voice of the people, it need never fear the people themselves when they’re armed. Only a government that uses secrecy and force to impose improper laws [to] which the people do not consent need fear the wrath of its law-abiding citizens at the ballot box or, ultimately, with arms … Our right of free speech and to back it up with arms if necessary if our government becomes tyrannical and unjust as King George’s was to the colonists are the most essential of the rights we as Americans have … I will oppose all efforts to create nonsensical distinctions that are nowhere supported by our constitutions between different types of firearms. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the government gets the effective firearms and the people the ineffective ones. Nowhere in our Constitution does it say that the government gets the modern firearms and the citizens only get the antiquated ones.”
April 13, 2010 — Sen. Randy Brogdon (R-OK) on meeting with Oklahoma Tea Party groups to discuss the formation of a new “volunteer militia” to defend against ‘improprer federal infringements on state sovereignty’ Brogdon states that the Founding Fathers “were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren’t even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other. The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government.”
May 6, 2010 — Christina Jeffrey (Republican candidate 4th Congressional District South Carolina) holding an AK-47 assault rifle; “Why do we have the Second Amendment? The Second Amendment ensures all of our other rights … The Second Amendment was placed in the Constitution, plainly, to ensure that our limited government stayed limited and that we would be able to enforce those limitations if need be … We are a sovereign people. A sovereign people is an armed people.”
May 15, 2010 — Newt Gingrich “The Second Amendment is not in defense of hunting. It is not in defense of target shooting. It is not in defense of collecting. The Second Amendment is in defense of freedom from the State.”
May 30, 2010 — Sharron Angle (Republican candidate U.S. Senator Nevada) “…the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn’t that they are so distrustful of government? They’re afraid they’ll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways.”
May 31, 2010 — Rex Nichols (candidate for sheriff Montana’s Lincoln County) in reference to federal agents, Ruby Ridge, Waco and keeping feds out of the county if elected. “I am going to take my deputies and stand in the middle of the road and tell them to get the hell out …..And if they want a war, they got it.”
September 30, 2010 — Steve Kendley, (candidate for sheriff Montana’s Lake County) threatens “a violent conflict” with federal agents if “they are doing something I believe is unconstitutional.”
October 21, 2010 — Stephen Broden (Republican candidate for 30th Congressional District Texas) states the violent overthrow of the government is an “option” that remains “on the table.” “Our nation was founded on violence….I don’t think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.”
November 9, 2010 — U.S. Representative-Elect Allen West (R-Fla) “I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendments rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will.”
November 29, 2010 — U.S. Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) comparing the Obama administration to the Nazi regime in Germany “Put anything in my scope and I will shoot it.”
Oh, and of course you love John Lott.
Your source of authority is a guy who (1) completely faked the results of one survey and got busted on it, (2) fucked up another survey with coding errors and presented the bullshit answers as proof of his claims, (3) went on internet threads under the name “Mary Rosh” to tell people how smart John Lott was, and (4) generally lied and bullshitted his way through life.
So, of course you think he’s an authority here. He’s almost as big of a fucking moron as you are.
Oh, and here’s some more, just from the last campaign.
Target Practice
Robert Lowry, a Republican challenger to Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schulz (D-FL), stopped by a local Republican event in October. The event was at a gun range, and Lowry shot at a human-shaped target that had Wasserman Schulz’s initials written next to it. He later said it was a “mistake.”
Wasserman Schulz, who defeated Lowry, remembered that incident on Hardball Monday evening.
“Those kinds of actions, words and statements can lead people who are unbalanced to potentially engage and carry out that violence,” she said. “It’s out of line and we’ve got to dial it back.”
Machine Gun Social
Dean Allen, a conservative candidate for state office in South Carolina threw a “machine gun social” in September, drawing 500 people for the chance to win a $700 AK-47 semiautomatic rifle. All attendees got to shoot 20 rounds from a machine gun of their choice. (He didn’t win.)
Armed and Fiscally Responsible
Pamela Gorman, a conservative in a crowded Republican primary field in Arizona’s third district, got some much-needed publicity with a web ad that showed a montage of her shooting different kinds of guns. She also blasted out press releases with titles like: “Armed and Fiscally Responsible.” She lost to Ben Quayle, who went on to win the general election and was sworn in last week.
Quayle himself put out a dramatic primary ad that got a lot of attention, in which he spoke directly into the camera, “Barack Obama is the worst president in history. … Somebody has to go to Washington and knock the hell out of the place.”
Shooting With The Candidate
Giffords’ own opponent, Republican Jesse Kelly, had a gun-themed fund-raiser in June in which supporters could come and shoot an M-16 rifle with Kelly. It was promoted thusly: Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”
Take No Prisoners
Dale Peterson, Republican candidate for agricultural commissioner of Alabama, ran an ad in May which he posed with a rifle and declared, “I’ll name names and take no prisoners.” He lost the primary.
Gather Your Armies
A month later, Rick Barber (R-AL) drew attention to his Congressional campaign with a TV ad in which he and “the Founding Fathers” discussed the current tax code. At the end of the ad, in which the cameras zoom in on colonial-era pistols several times, one of the Founders says, “Gather your armies.” He also lost his primary.
Cleaning My Guns
About a year ago, Richard Behney, a tea partier from Indiana running for former Sen. Evan Bayh’s seat, told a group of Second Amendment activists that they didn’t have to resort to armed insurrection — “yet.”
“We can get new faces in. Whether it’s my face or not, I pray to God that I see new faces. And if we don’t see new faces, I’m cleaning my guns and getting ready for the big show. And I’m serious about that, and I bet you are, too. But I know none of us want to go that far yet, and we can do it with our vote,” he said.
We Hunt Democrats
Another one from 2009: Rep. Gregg Harper (R-MS) told Politico that he hunts Democrats. Asked about the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus, he said, “We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition.”
Ballots & Bullets
New Rep. Allen West (R-FL) almost hired a Florida talk-radio host, Joyce Kaufman, as his chief of staff. But Kaufman withdrew after media coverage of some of her more fiery statements, such as:
“I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave a Second Amendment,” she told a tea party crowd last summer. “And if ballots don’t work, bullets will.”
*****
What’s that? The president said he was angry? Oh, well, never mind. Both sides are clearly the same.
“A house divided cannot stand”
Can we all at least find a common ground here and agree that Heath Shuler always has been and always will be an enormous douche and that in the left picture he is obviously spanking it to 1-900-Gay-Balls
I understand there was a football game last night.
Seriously, I respect everyone’s opinion, but every showdown is going to be a no-decision in the comment threads.
@josh Z – seriously, Otto’s making some headway with me where I thought there wasn’t an otherwise rational argument.
Well done, especially given that emotion can sometimes cloud otherwise sane arguments.
/stops stirring pot